I agree and I'm vegan for the planet and for the love of animals. But I will admit that if you are going to keep free ranging animals in enclosed spaces and you have to kill some to prevent them all starving - then eating the meat is better than letting it go to waste as it is still currently illegal to leave a dead animal on the land to feed the birds and insects as nature intended. Personally I'd still choose not to eat animals bird or fish though. x i
Derek - I try to introduce people interested to the ideas around 'value' and measurement of ecological services. There is often a 'gut reaction 'push back to this idea of trying to place a value on nature. However, this is a valid way to approach protection/conservation, issues . Economists are not always the bad guys ! You may be interested in a book just published, How to Value a Skylark: the Countryside in a Time of Change, which looks at these and other countryside issues which will become (hopefully) important topics during this decade,
"The Dutch who coined its initial use now refer to rewilding as “New Nature""
"New Nature is about large areas of land being enabled to become free-willed, where large, semi-domesticated and wild ungulates can create landscapes that give opportunities for smaller creatures"
Two quotations that betray the historical and ecological ignorance of Derek Gow and his fellow safari park "rewilders"
Rewilding arose from conservation biology and the collaboration of scientists with citizen activists in designing networks of interconnected reserves at a regional scale. It is predicated on full trophic occupancy, the ecological poise in natural systems arising when large carnivores interact with herbivory. Everything else is just gardening
NATURAL SCIENCE AND SPATIAL APPROACH OF REWILDING - Evolution in meaning of rewilding in Wild Earth and The Wildlands Project
Sophie – I value a news system that keeps me up with things I may have missed, but it has been disappointing to see how quickly you have fallen into giving publicity to the populist opinions of the usual suspects, irrespective of its veracity.
Hi Mark. I'm glad you are (somewhat) enjoying Inkcap. I am very aware that not everyone shares the same vision, or even definition, of rewilding, but I think it's interesting to read about all angles – particularly from someone like Derek Gow who is an influential and active practitioner. You don't necessarily have to agree. Separately, I've followed your work a little, but I've never really managed to grasp exactly what you're calling *for*, although I've seen a lot of what you're fighting against! If you could point me to a place where you set out your own vision, I'd find it very helpful for understanding better where you are coming from. Thanks! Sophie
I think you must mean reintroducing large carnivores.
Since all the translocations of beavers from Scotland to England that Derek Gow has been involved in have been to fenced-in enclosures, rather than free living, then it is gardening
I don't agree with your assertion Mark that beavers, through their wetland creation and eco-engineers aren't powerful agents of rewilding. The five and a half year Devon Beaver Project, the most rigorous project of its kind ever undertaken, reached its culmination in September, and the UK government in the form of DEFRA granted free-living beavers on the River Otter the "right to remain". DEFRA is now in consultation with many different organisations to come up with a viable beaver reintroduction plan for England. These (legally sanctioned/approved) reintroductions take time. They don't happen overnight. So yes for a time, beavers will live in enclosures in England. But the fences will inevitably come down at some point. And this will be a truly great day for our island home and the life we share it with.
Seems like a bit of a sidestep for what I feel are valid points that challenge your position, but ok. Getting hung up on the semantics of rewilding seems a bit silly to me, progress is progress, and better we're on the same side and looking to what we're aligned on, as oppose to how we differ on issues. Anyway, solely focussing on large predators seems a little short-sighted to me. Britain has lost something like 90% of its wetlands in the last century. Having the beaver back which is a wetland creator is a very important part of the rewilding story...large predators do not and cannot create wetlands.
Would you be the Sam Gandy that finds himself on the "cutting edge of psychedelic research", who thinks "psychedelics have the potential to reconnect our increasingly disconnected species to the natural world"?
Which large carnivores would you like to see introduced in the UK then? I'm aware that Beaver reintroductions still have to be in enclosures to meet UK law. But the law is an ass. Which is surely what Mr Gow is saying?
They are not a reintroduction if they are behind fences.
Legislation on releasing species not currently resident into free living in the UK is there to protect the species that are resident from non-natives, as well as enable people to prepare for the possible impacts of reinstatement of former native species.
As has been seen across continental Europe, the voluntary westward reinstatement of wolves has succeeded because of the obligation on EU member states for their strict protection under the Habitats Directive. The success of assisted reinstatement of lynx and bear has also relied on that. The maturity shown by non-EU member states in preparing for and then protecting wolves when they arrived has also contributed.
The withdrawal of UK from the EU takes away an obligation for strict protection of lynx, but not of wolves, as the UK is a signatory of the Bern Convention. In ecological terms, it is likely that both lynx and wolves would succeed if reinstated, but it will be harder to establish lynx now because of the lack of strict protection.
And what about if they slip out from under the fences? :-) Anyway let us agree that the re-establishment of both lynx and wolves would be a wonderful thing. I hope that any possible grand-children I may have will live to see it. Best wishes to you. Isabel
"They are not a reintroduction if they are behind fences."
A short-sighted view I think. Without these enclosure releases, there likely won't be any chance of a reintroduction of free-living beavers into the wild in England, they are an important and necessary step. One day the enclosure fences will come down.
I think we're some way off reintroducing free-living wolves to Britain if we'll ever get there. More so with bears. Lynx are a much more realistic goal for the reintroduction of an apex predator into the wilds of Britain.
Wonderful. Thank you Sophie. Thank you Derek.
I am not happy about the reference to various meats. We should all be at least vegetarian and preferably vegan.
I agree and I'm vegan for the planet and for the love of animals. But I will admit that if you are going to keep free ranging animals in enclosed spaces and you have to kill some to prevent them all starving - then eating the meat is better than letting it go to waste as it is still currently illegal to leave a dead animal on the land to feed the birds and insects as nature intended. Personally I'd still choose not to eat animals bird or fish though. x i
Derek - I try to introduce people interested to the ideas around 'value' and measurement of ecological services. There is often a 'gut reaction 'push back to this idea of trying to place a value on nature. However, this is a valid way to approach protection/conservation, issues . Economists are not always the bad guys ! You may be interested in a book just published, How to Value a Skylark: the Countryside in a Time of Change, which looks at these and other countryside issues which will become (hopefully) important topics during this decade,
Brian Kerr
"The Dutch who coined its initial use now refer to rewilding as “New Nature""
"New Nature is about large areas of land being enabled to become free-willed, where large, semi-domesticated and wild ungulates can create landscapes that give opportunities for smaller creatures"
Two quotations that betray the historical and ecological ignorance of Derek Gow and his fellow safari park "rewilders"
Rewilding arose from conservation biology and the collaboration of scientists with citizen activists in designing networks of interconnected reserves at a regional scale. It is predicated on full trophic occupancy, the ecological poise in natural systems arising when large carnivores interact with herbivory. Everything else is just gardening
NATURAL SCIENCE AND SPATIAL APPROACH OF REWILDING - Evolution in meaning of rewilding in Wild Earth and The Wildlands Project
http://www.self-willed-land.org.uk/rep_res/REWILDING_WILDEARTH_WILDLANDS_PROJECT.pdf
Sophie – I value a news system that keeps me up with things I may have missed, but it has been disappointing to see how quickly you have fallen into giving publicity to the populist opinions of the usual suspects, irrespective of its veracity.
Hi Mark. I'm glad you are (somewhat) enjoying Inkcap. I am very aware that not everyone shares the same vision, or even definition, of rewilding, but I think it's interesting to read about all angles – particularly from someone like Derek Gow who is an influential and active practitioner. You don't necessarily have to agree. Separately, I've followed your work a little, but I've never really managed to grasp exactly what you're calling *for*, although I've seen a lot of what you're fighting against! If you could point me to a place where you set out your own vision, I'd find it very helpful for understanding better where you are coming from. Thanks! Sophie
A common charge levelled against me. You could start by reading the manifesto for rewilding the UK that I circulated 17 years ago
http://www.self-willed-land.org.uk/rep_res/SELF.pdf
thanks for sharing - very informative
So re-introducing large herbivores is rewilding but re-introducing beavers is 'gardening' in your opinion?
I think you must mean reintroducing large carnivores.
Since all the translocations of beavers from Scotland to England that Derek Gow has been involved in have been to fenced-in enclosures, rather than free living, then it is gardening
I don't agree with your assertion Mark that beavers, through their wetland creation and eco-engineers aren't powerful agents of rewilding. The five and a half year Devon Beaver Project, the most rigorous project of its kind ever undertaken, reached its culmination in September, and the UK government in the form of DEFRA granted free-living beavers on the River Otter the "right to remain". DEFRA is now in consultation with many different organisations to come up with a viable beaver reintroduction plan for England. These (legally sanctioned/approved) reintroductions take time. They don't happen overnight. So yes for a time, beavers will live in enclosures in England. But the fences will inevitably come down at some point. And this will be a truly great day for our island home and the life we share it with.
It's hard to respond to someone who doesn't agree with something I didn't say.
Seems like a bit of a sidestep for what I feel are valid points that challenge your position, but ok. Getting hung up on the semantics of rewilding seems a bit silly to me, progress is progress, and better we're on the same side and looking to what we're aligned on, as oppose to how we differ on issues. Anyway, solely focussing on large predators seems a little short-sighted to me. Britain has lost something like 90% of its wetlands in the last century. Having the beaver back which is a wetland creator is a very important part of the rewilding story...large predators do not and cannot create wetlands.
Would you be the Sam Gandy that finds himself on the "cutting edge of psychedelic research", who thinks "psychedelics have the potential to reconnect our increasingly disconnected species to the natural world"?
Which large carnivores would you like to see introduced in the UK then? I'm aware that Beaver reintroductions still have to be in enclosures to meet UK law. But the law is an ass. Which is surely what Mr Gow is saying?
They are not a reintroduction if they are behind fences.
Legislation on releasing species not currently resident into free living in the UK is there to protect the species that are resident from non-natives, as well as enable people to prepare for the possible impacts of reinstatement of former native species.
As has been seen across continental Europe, the voluntary westward reinstatement of wolves has succeeded because of the obligation on EU member states for their strict protection under the Habitats Directive. The success of assisted reinstatement of lynx and bear has also relied on that. The maturity shown by non-EU member states in preparing for and then protecting wolves when they arrived has also contributed.
The withdrawal of UK from the EU takes away an obligation for strict protection of lynx, but not of wolves, as the UK is a signatory of the Bern Convention. In ecological terms, it is likely that both lynx and wolves would succeed if reinstated, but it will be harder to establish lynx now because of the lack of strict protection.
And what about if they slip out from under the fences? :-) Anyway let us agree that the re-establishment of both lynx and wolves would be a wonderful thing. I hope that any possible grand-children I may have will live to see it. Best wishes to you. Isabel
"They are not a reintroduction if they are behind fences."
A short-sighted view I think. Without these enclosure releases, there likely won't be any chance of a reintroduction of free-living beavers into the wild in England, they are an important and necessary step. One day the enclosure fences will come down.
I think we're some way off reintroducing free-living wolves to Britain if we'll ever get there. More so with bears. Lynx are a much more realistic goal for the reintroduction of an apex predator into the wilds of Britain.